Ezra Miller, Michael Angarano, Nicholas Braun talk 'Stanford Prison Experiment'

Philip Zimbardo, Michael Angarano, Nicholas Braun, Kyle Patrick Alvarez, Ezra Miller, and Billy Crudup attend the New York premiere of 'The Stanford Prison Experiment' at Chelsea Bow Tie Cinemas on July 15, 2015 in New York City.

Photo by Andrew H. Walker/Getty Images

New York Premiere of IFC Film’s "The Stanford Prison Experiment" was held on July 15, 2015 at Bow Tie Chelsea Cinemas. From the film: Michael Angarano, Billy Crudup, Ezra Miller, Nicholas Braun, Dr. Philip Zimbardo, and director Kyle Patrick Alvarez walked the red carpet. They were joined by additional celebrity guests Mackenzie Davis, Maya Kazan, Erin Darke, Adam David Thompson, Steven Strait, Carlen Altman, John Krokidas, Ryan Fleck, Pamela Romanowsky, Joyce Carol Oates, Dan Abrams, Todd and Megan DiCiurcio. Following the screening, Psychology Today hosted a discussion with the cast, director, and Dr. Zimbardo. After everyone headed over to No. 8 for cocktails and canapés. The film is 122 minutes. It opening in theaters July 17 and on VOD July 24. In this tense, psychological thriller based on the notorious true story, Billy Crudup stars as Stanford University professor Dr. Philip Zimbardo, who, in 1971, cast 24 student volunteers as prisoners and guards in a simulated jail to examine the source of abusive behavior in the prison system. The results astonished the world, as participants went from middle-class undergrads to drunk-with-power sadists and submissive victims in just a few days. Winner of two awards at the Sundance Film Festival, including Best Screenplay, and created with the close participation of Dr. Zimbardo himself, the film is a chilling, edge-of-your-seat thriller about the dark side of power and the effects of imprisonment. It features an extraordinary cast of rising young actors, including Ezra Miller, Olivia Thirlby, Tye Sheridan, Keir Gilchrist, Michael Angarano, and Thomas Mann. Read our exclusive interviews below:
Michael Angarano

Q: What attracted you to the project?

MA: I first read the script 8 years ago and it was a different cast, it was a different writer, a different director. And I think since this experiment happened in 1971, I think they’ve been trying to make this movie because I feel like it’s impossible to not walk away from this story without talking about it. It’s never been more relevant than it is today. But I feel like you could’ve said that for any year over the past 44 years. So I feel like it’s...it’s just a really important story to be told and it’s really fascinating what Doctor Zimbardo did. I’m happy his story finally has gotten told.

Q: Can you speak about getting into your character's head and mindset? Since he’s not the nicest guy.

MA: No, his character's not a nice guy but I think it’s so important to realize that these guys were not criminals. And they were all college kids from across the country who were really smart, and no history of mental illness or criminal record. So none of them have been arrested since then or none of them have serious offenders of any kind. I think it’s really important to realize that he really specifically made a choice that was a catalyst for the rest of the experiment, I think he intentionally did that. I think he intentionally made a choice to detach himself emotionally to his own behavior and what kind of emotional torment he was putting the other guys through. I don’t think he was a bad guy as much as he was a really good actor.

Q: You also have "The Knick" coming up, second season. Can you talk about working on that show? What the experience has been like?

MA: It’s pretty much the best job in the world. Soderbergh is essentially giving a master class and going to work every day and watching him work is remarkable. I feel like the second season, the actors were even more of a cohesive unit and everybody was really kind of firing on all cylinders. The writings better, the actings better, it just felt really good so I’m excited for it to come out.

Q: You also have your directorial debut coming out.

MA: We shot it in December, it’s with Nick Braun, Juno Temple, Adelaide Clemens, it’s about a young guy who celebrates his 25th birthday a month after his brother dies.
Ezra Miller

Q: Speak about what it was like getting into the mindset of this character, what was it like for you?

Miller: What’s really cool is that essentially for this movie, the process was to create a character or a sense of an identity that would then rapidly slip away and dissolve into this new desperate projection and ultimately loss of identity. So yeah, getting into the mindset was a lot of drawing on the source material that we had but also thinking about the position of this kid who’s an activist who’s interested in theoretically he’s interested in calling out injustice and he’s running around campus, he’s an angry kid, he’s kind of...he has one idea on how to dissolve power structures and then on the other hand he upholds a lot of power structures because he’s kind of a misogynist, he’s not very reverent towards race issues, these things I think are all clearly demonstrated in the film. He’s appropriating the words of Huey P. Newton in the context of the psychological experiment happening at the university. What’s interesting about him to me is, ultimately, his form of resistance to this structure that is imposed is highly, highly ineffective to the point that it actually reinforces the system and furthers the brutal process of this experiment.

Q: Speak about collaborating with Kyle and what you admire about him.

Miller: Kyle is such a glowing example of what a really incredible director can be, which I would say is kind. Kyle is an incredibly sweet, giving, loving person. And often, those people do not make the best filmmakers. But in the case of Kyle we find a really great exception which is that he is someone who remains loving through the entire process but at the same time is able to draw out what he requires and give what an actor might need. But in this context of being really sweet. We need more people to crack whatever code Kyle has cracked so we can get more incredible films and still just have a great loving time making it.
Nicholas Braun

Q: Talk about your character. 

NB: I play Vandy, one of the guards. He is one of the more abusive guards. He starts out as a nice guy who’s excited to do the experiment. Mike Angarano’s character shows him that you can get away with stuff in there and I start to take it, get a little excited.

Q: Talk about your research. Did you watch the videos?

NB: I just abused a lot of strangers in the streets. [Laughs.] No I think its when you think about the times when you flip a switch and realize you can get some power in a situation and take it way too far. I think when you’re a kid you do it more too, like in school when you’re bullied and you don’t yet have the sensitivities. That’s what’s happening with these guys. They don’t think about the parameters outside of it, they just think about the here and now and they want power. They’re also there to do a job. They’re making money; so they want to do the job well. No body is telling them it’s too much, so they keep doing what’s working.

Q: How was that tension built on set?

NB: The prisoners didn’t take off their gowns. The guards stayed in their outfits, the prisoners stayed in theirs. Prisoners seemed to hang out with prisoners more and the guards hung out with guards from their shifts. So the dynamic was already set there. We also didn’t rehearse much. I didn’t tell the guys what I was going to do and there was a lot of improve. If I wanted to make them do 20 to 30 extra pushups, they had to do it because we were rolling and I could do that. They had real chains and locks on their ankles and they told me after that it hurt. But while they’re doing it they didn’t. That’s exactly what the experiment is.

Q: Did you learn anything about yourself after working on this film?

NB: You learn that you are capable of doing things that seem out of your typical self. But if you’re put in the right circumstances and given permission, like the director gave me permission in this circumstance similar to the way Zimbardo gave these kids permission, you do it. You go farther than you think you are capable of.
Kyle Patrick Alvarez

Q: Talk about bringing authenticity to the film. How did you go on about doing that?

KPA: We went to Stanford. We measured the hallway that is there and rebuilt it the exactly the same way. We looked at all the footage and photographs. We did what we could to still keep it a film. But the goal was that when you look at all the wealth of material that exists from this experiment and you watch the movie and you go look up the photographs, they blur. They blur because we want the film to access a certain amount of reality of what happened. The more it overlaps, the more we can make the spaces, costumes, and the reality of what happened look the same, the more legitimacy the movie carries.

Q: What do you feel is the most important message of the film?

KPA: The most important message is to say that things that define us as individuals or things that we think define us, it’s actually a little more complex than that. The things that we consider the fundamentals and make us who we are, are really much more malleable. They can change quite quickly. It’s a serving thing to accept. Hopefully the film brings you to a place where you can accept maybe I would act that way. I’m not sure; I’ve never been in that situation before. And through that creates a certain amount of empathy from the viewer for the people who are in these kinds of situations.

Ezra Miller and Michael Angarano on Going Method and The Stanford Prison Experiment

 

Ezra Miller, Michael Angarano Photo: Gary Gershoff/Taylor Hill/WireImage/FilmMagic

The pioneering 1971 Stanford Prison Experiment may have been hell for its participants, but that's exactly why the new movie based on it was enticing for its many up-and-coming young actors. Foremost among them are Ezra Miller and Michael Angarano, who play two Stanford students drafted to participate in a psychology study that will split young men into groups of prisoners and guards. The experiment was meant to last two weeks, but less than a day in, it had already devolved into an eye-opening treatise on abuse of power, as the guard played by Angarano and the prisoner played by Miller locked horns and were pushed to psychological extremes. Vulture recently caught up with both actors to talk about how well they'd known each other before they found themselves screaming at each other on set for weeks.

The experiment in this movie kind of doubles as a metaphor for acting, so my first question to you guys is this: As an actor, are you more like Michael's character, who can do screwed-up things at work and then leave it all behind at the end of the day, or are you more like Ezra's character, who finds that the simulation is personally affecting him?
 
Ezra Miller: That's the dopest, most meta question I've ever heard. I think that I've spent a lot of time trying to figure out where I fall on that spectrum, and ironically enough, this film was a huge step for me in endowing my own ability to leave a role behind. I think I've done a lot of experimentation with picking a role up and throwing my actual self into it, and I think that is good and has its place, but it's a magical understanding to know that you don't need to do that. You can get the same power of performance while maintaining your society.

Michael Angarano: I have a very similar journey to Ezra's, I think, in the sense that I've tried a lot of different things. Not to say that I don't admire someone who takes it home with them and is personally affected by a role — depending on the kind of material you're working with, stuff will come home with you, and you can't help it — but now I admire the skill and the craft of leaving it all on the set. I kind of strive for being able to go home and having a totally separate life. I worked with Christopher Plummer once, and I was really blown away by his ability to step in and out of character so seamlessly that it was almost unfair. But there's a lot of effort required for that effortlessness.

Miller: I had a similar experience with Tilda Swinton on We Need to Talk About Kevin, where I was this wild, young actor. I had been watching her all film long, and we came to this crucial scene where I was like, "Tilda, we should do a thing where you tell me something about your life that you don't want me to know, and then I'll know it, and you'll know that I know it!" And she was like, "You know what, darling? I think if we're just present when the time comes, we'll know what to do." And that's a really beautiful idea that's changed my view on this exact subject. If we're really present, everything is available to us.

Angarano: A lot of really great actors I've worked with tend to be older, and I think the better you know yourself as a person, the better an actor you can be. So as I've gotten to know myself as a person and grown up, I've realized that. Although certain people do need to stay in character the whole time, and that's just what they require as a person.

Miller: And certain people should! I think we're both trying not to invalidate that method, which is still something that I plan to do at certain times. I define my acting method as "whatever the fuck it takes." Whatever it takes to make the thing happen, so you know you got it and you hit the moments you needed to. So I'm not swearing off the "Daniel Day" of it all. I'll have my "Daniel Day" day again, I'm sure.

So what was it about this movie, Ezra, that encouraged you to concentrate on the craft rather than throwing yourself into it headlong?
 
Miller: I think we were being really intentional about not going too Method on this one, because we were making a movie about the re-creation of a prison. If we'd gone there too much, we would have run the risk of simulating the simulation all too well, and then we'd be in prison.

What appealed to you both about the characters you play in this? I could have seen you switching roles, too, like a theater company that trades off every night.
 
Miller: And that would have been really fun, and honestly, we should probably do that as a play experiment. That'd be a good exercise. The Stanford Play Experiment.

Angarano: That's what I liked about the script. While there are a lot of roles, I found each role to be very intrinsic and important to the story. When I met with the director, it wasn't for a specific part. I talked to him about the parts that I thought were good, but what's so great about the experiment is that it strips the ego away to the degree that you realize the character you thought you would play in the movie is probably the character that you're not in real life. Even in the real experiment, the guy that my character was based on, I think he would have been very different if he'd been picked as a prisoner, not a guard.

Michael, you told me at Sundance that when you watched your performance in this, you were shocked by some of the things you found yourself saying. Do you often have that experience?
 
Angarano: I always want to watch something I've done, so that I know what I didn't do well. But yeah, sometimes you watch something and you don't recall it. It was a choice that you made and you weren't aware you made it, and that's kind of all you can ask for.

Miller: That's how you know you're doing it well, when you completely forget the doing of a work of art. That means you were open and that something else could come through. Really, that's my goal beyond being an actor, is just being an open channel.

Had you guys known each other well before the movie?
 
Miller: I think we knew each other for about four years before the making of this film, through mutual friends. Michael actually came out for a friend's birthday when I was working on a film with that friend.

Angarano: They were making Perks of Being a Wallflower, and I essentially knew the entire cast.
Miller: Except for me, until you came out!

Michael, what was your first impression of Ezra?
 
Miller: Oh, I want to hear this.
Angarano: Honestly, I was fascinated by Ezra. He was somebody I could talk about stuff with that seemed very, very deep. I can remember at one point we went on a walk to a concert and I very specifically remember in the middle of talking, thinking, Wow, this is a great conversation.
Miller: Having not really seen much of your work, I remember meeting Michael and saying, "Oh, this motherfucker is a good actor." I don't know what it is … sometimes you can just catch the light off someone in a first interaction. Also, he'd been getting pretty hyped up. He had some hype men around him: "Ladies and gentlemen, the unbelievable, the incredible Michael Angarano!" But yeah, I remember thinking, This dude's got some shiny parts.

Okay, last question: Michael, please tell me about the Drunk History episode where you played Walt Disney. I've always wondered what it's like for an actor to mime along to all that.
 
Miller: Thank you! I've wondered this, too, and it's hard for me to be the guy to ask. Tell us, Michael.
Angarano: You get the actual drunk-person interview a couple days before, so you're able to learn it …

Miller: … but not too well.

Angarano: You're also like, "Oh fuck, this is gonna be really hard, actually! I have to learn this guy's pattern of speech in two days!" They play it for you as you're saying it, because there's no sound in the scene. So, thank God, they're able to play the interview as you're acting it. And they have a great hair and makeup team helping you along.


Miller: I have a question, if you don't mind. Michael, are you concerned that when Walt Disney comes out of cryogenic freeze, that he's gonna come after you and say, "Hey, man, that wasn't cool"?

Angarano: I actually think it's a very loyal and fair interpretation of Walt Disney.

Uma Thurman & Kristen Stewart’s Ex-Boyfriend Michael Angarano Walk The NYC Red Carpet For ‘Ceremony’

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How funny is it that Uma is in a very awkward love triangle with Robert Pattinson and Kristen Stewart’s ex!

Uma Thurman has locked lips with both Robert Pattinson, her Bel Ami costar, and Kristen Stewart’s ex-boyfriend Michael Angarano — lucky! Uma is quite the cougar in her upcoming flick Ceremony which co-stars Michael and HollywoodLife.com was front and center on April 5 as they strutted down the NYC red carpet for the Ceremony premiere hosted by the Peggy Siegal Company Event.

Uma played the cougar part perfectly looking stunning in a skin tight grey and blue dress and strappy silver sandals. Other A-list celebs walked the carpet like Alexa Chung and father-son duo Henry and Max Winkler.

Afterwards the stars then headed downtown for the after party at Don Hills. I wonder if Uma will swap stories with K-Stew about who is the better kisser!

Kristen Stewart’s Ex-Boyfriend Has A Hot New Hollywood Girlfriend

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Before there was Rob and Kristen, there was Michael Angarano and Kristen! While she’s famously moved on, Michael’s just landed himself another Hollywood starlet girlfriend: Juno Temple!

Michael Angarano, Kristen Stewart‘s boyfriend before Robert Pattinson has now fallen in love with another co-star — exactly how he met Kristen! Will it work out?

Michael has a knack of falling in love with co-stars. And now Us Weekly has reported that Kristen’s former boyfriend has started dating actress Juno Temple, 23. The new couple appeared in the 2012 fantasy thriller The Brass Teapot together. An insider tells the magazine that they, “Hit it off and had great chemistry from the start,” adding, “It was an intimate set and everyone really bonded. They were both single and it just worked.”

Michael’s relationship with Kristen started in 2004, when they met on the set of Speak, but didn’t last as Kristen’s star started to rise in 2009. Then, of course, she began dating Rob.

Michael Angarano’s New Relationship With Juno Temple Is Blossoming!

Michael and Juno have been seen recently together, both at the premiere for her film, Afternoon Delight, at the Sundance Film Festival and at the film’s after party, where Us Weekly sources state that Juno “ran over to him, wrapped her arms around him and started kissing him.” The report adds, “They try keep it pretty quiet but very supportive of each other. She’s blowing up and she loves having him around to help take away some of the stress of it all.”

Sounds pretty romantic to us, and we only hope for the best for the duo. It seems like they are doing better then Rob and Kristen!

So HollywoodLifers, are you happy for Michael and Juno? Sound off below!

Ezra Miller and Michael Angarano on the Dark Side of Human Nature in 'The Stanford Prison Experiment'

"When someone acts on the power structure in a violent way, we all act horrified. The truth is that we all bear communal responsibility."

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IFC Films "The Stanford Prison Experiment"

Human nature is a deeply nebulous topic. But while defining it is difficult, studying it — reproducing its manifestations in a lab setting — is even more daunting. Enter Dr. Philip Zimbardo. In 1971, Zimbardo, then a psychology professor at Stanford University, designed an experiment that would, alongside Stanley Milgram's electric shock experiments, come to serve as the definitive psychological investigation into human nature. And the results weren't pretty.

Though the Stanford Prison Experiment began as an inquiry into the causes of conflict between prisoners and guards, it transmogrified into a power-play that exposed our deep-seated human desire for conformity and power. Twenty-four male students, randomly assigned roles as prisoner and guard, were selected to live in a 14-day mock prison in the basement of a Stanford University building. The simulation quickly turned into reality: The guards became increasingly rapacious in their desire for control, instituting cruel authoritarian measures and in some cases employing psychological torture. None of the participants spoke out against the unjust punishments administered. Two prisoners suffered psychological breaks and quit the experiment early, and after seven days it was terminated. The most harrowing perpetrator? Zimbardo himself, who became so enmeshed in his prison warden identity that he permitted, and in some cases encouraged, abuse.

Michael Angarano is a power-hungry guard and Ezra Miller his defiant prisoner in Kyle Patrick Alvarez's interpretation of these events. After enduring development purgatory for 20 years, "The Stanford Prison Experiment" opens Friday at critical juncture in modern American history. Indiewire spoke to Angarano and Miller about the ways in which the film sheds light on Ferguson and informs our reevaluation of the criminal justice system. The actors also talk about their upcoming roles (Miller in "The Flash" and Angarano in "The Knick"), the benefits of growing up as a child actor, and the unique challenge of their generation.

Why did you want to take part in what is essentially a dramatization of an iconic experiment? 

Ezra Miller: This experiment holds a lot of sway to this day. It’s become 101 reading for any psychology class. Zimbardo’s work has been drawn upon in a lot of very real social situations. I think it remains really relevant... Probably more relevant than ever, as we’re now the country that incarcerates the most people by far. I think that it’s also a great time to be thinking about and asking questions about problems that are systemic, when it could be tempting to blame individuals. Also, I just thought it was a dope script and I wanted to get down into this nice acting sho-lange.
Michael Angarano: It’s the greatest acting sho-lange for young men.

For all the laymen out there, what, exactly, is a sho-lange?

Miller: It would be the pseudo-French pronunciation of “challenge.” A nice sho-lange [Solange] Knowles, if you will.

[Laughs] So besides the sho-langing elements, what was compelling about the story?

Angarano: Well, it’s been around. I read the script 8 years ago and was too young to even be considered for it. It was a completely different incarnation of cast and director. I feel like that’s been happening, or so I’m told by Zimbardo, for the past 25 years. They’ve been trying to make the movie for a really long time. That just means that the story has really reached out, not only in its original intention of social psychology, but also to actors, and writers and directors. It’s such a great subject and it really is one of those things that feels like an actor’s dream.

Miller: Michael, let me ask a little follow-up question here. Do you feel you may have held back progress on the making of the “Stanford Prison Experiment” film because you read it when you were 9 and were just wishing so hard that it got prolonged?

Angarano: It could very well be.

Miller: Well, you are to blame and thank, my friend.

Chuck Painter / Stanford News Service The real Stanford Prison Experiment in 1971.

 

This is impeccable timing for this film to come out, given the necessary reevaluation of our criminal justice system spurred by the deaths of Michael Brown and Eric Garner. How will thinking about this film — and the experiment in general — 

impact the way people think about these current events?

"When someone acts on the power structure in a violent way, we all act horrified. The truth is that we all bear communal responsibility in the system." Ezra Miller

 

Miller: I’ll definitely say that this seemed to happen for a reason, exactly at this time. We were making this movie while the riots were happening in Ferguson and the protests and all the organization and networking that was starting to really spark off there in the wake of Michael Brown’s death. It was crazy. I will never forget that we did that scene where Nicholas Braun’s character hits my character in the face when my character has crossed the line. I remember that we were doing it all day. It was a tough scene. I accidentally really did get hit in the face, which I believe is the take that was used. I went home that night to my little hotel cave and was watching whatever it was, Rachel Maddow, live, and saw pretty much the same choreography, beat for beat, happen on a street in Ferguson. I definitely think that what Zimbardo put forward in the wake of this experiment is that when something horrible — tragedy, caused by one human hurting another — happens in our society, we are very eager to point fingers of blame at a single individual. I think that a large part of the movement that has sprung up around all of these people’s deaths has to do with the fact that this problem is massively systemic. We’ve created a situation, just like Zimbardo created a situation in the basement of the Stanford psychology department. We’ve created this situation of white supremacist, imperialist, racist state. Now we’re living in those power structures. When someone acts on the power structure in a violent way, we all act horrified. The truth is that we all bear communal responsibility in the system that we collectively create in society.

But we can't absolve ourselves of individual responsibility, can we?

Angarano: What’s so interesting about the experiment, which is a microcosm and a metaphor for other similar situations, is that none of the guards really spoke out to the other guards. There was no individual who was courageous enough to speak up to or against the people whose side he was on. I feel like the [students who were chosen to be] prisoners had this egotistical, prideful thing about…
Miller: ...being in the righteous position.

Angarano: These kids were also Vietnam protestors, some of them. These were people who were very indignant in the first place about systems and guards. I think it just says something about the duress that we feel under social situations to not only act a certain way, but to not act out of a certain way. It’s a fascinating thing about the experiment that it even took Zimbardo himself way longer than it should have to actually stop the guards from doing what they were doing. Nobody stopped them. Nobody did anything.

Miller: I think that is a really, critical answer to that question. Essentially, where there’s potential for individual accountability to play a massive role is in individuals standing up and speaking out against systems of oppression when they see them, as they see them.

IFC Films "The Stanford Prison Experiment"

 

"There will be defining moments in everyone’s life where we’ll have opportunities to know our own real substance." --Ezra Miller

 

Do you think you'd have the strength to dissent? 

Angarano: I think you could think about it, but what you learn from the experiment is that you really don’t know.

Miller: There are those people who do step up, who do speak out. I think about the Holocaust. There are countless, countless German people, soldiers, officials, who stepped up and were murdered. Countless. I think it really comes to this idea that there will be defining moments in everyone’s life where we’ll have opportunities to know our own real substance. A big part of the experiment’s findings is that our identity is fictitious. When you end up in a serious situation where violence is happening, all of your supposed internal mechanisms rapidly dissolve.

In the experiment, after 24 hours, you're just a number. Societal constructs are stripped away.

Angarano: Right. What’s so interesting is that as deep as this all sounds, it really is that deep. It goes down to your complete unawareness of ego. You lose all form of identity. The guards lost their identity because their eyes were covered and they had these uniforms on. The prisoners lost all form of identity by being called their numbers and by wearing smocks and having these do-rags on their heads. Everybody was stripped of individuality. How we interact, the civility about how we should go about everyday life was completely gone. All form of time left them. They didn’t know if it was dark or if it was light. They didn’t know if it was night or day.

You mentioned defining moments. Can you think of any in your own lives?

Miller: Oh, my goodness, I'm bathing in defining moments. Every day I wake up defining [laughs].

"Our generation seems to be at a lack of power. We don't have a cultural revolution." --Michael Angarano 

 

Angarano: Every time you see a march going on outside, even though there are so many marches going on outside, I feel like that’s a small act of defiance. That’s a defining moment. We just live in a time where there have been so many of them that they didn’t seem to have as big of an effect as Kent State did back in the day or the Los Angeles riots back in the day. While it’s encouraging, it’s also kind of troubling. What more can our generation really do? Our generation seems to be at a lack of power. We’re not hippies, we don’t have punk rock.

Miller: We are hippies, Michael! We do have punk rock! Don’t you see?

Angarano: What we don’t have is a cultural revolution.

IFC Films Ezra Miller in "Afterschool" (2008)

 

"I’ve fucking failed hard and fallen apart and not done the right thing." --Ezra Miller

Miller: I disagree. Especially when I look at the black community in America, the youth, and I look at the art that’s coming of that community: To Pimp a Butterfly, and the new A$AP album. They're representing a very radical, very departed ideology. I think that you might be right that there are big portions of our generation that are really bathed in consumerism and really blinded by the light of the phone screen and could step up a lot. I’ve had some defining moments where I’ve fucking failed hard and fallen apart and not done the right thing and not intervened when I saw an act of domestic violence or any of these types of things. I’ve failed. That’s how we learn, that’s how we start thinking about the next defining moment and what we’re going to do between now and then to be ready when it comes.

Probably becoming "The Flash" will be a different kind of defining moment for you, Ezra. How did that come to be?

Miller: I’d love to be a fly on the wall during the “who’s going to be ‘The Flash’" argument.
Angarano: You’re saying that it was out of your control, ultimately.

Miller: Yeah, it was out of my hands. I don’t really know how it happened, that I became The Flash. To my understanding, usually someone’s either struck by lightning into a basket of chemicals or they inhale heavy water vapors [laughs]. So I think that’s how it happened to me, too. Just in a more abstract sense.

What's next for you, Michael?

Angarano: I have Season 2 of “The Knick.” I directed a movie, which I’m very proud of and can’t wait for people to see.

Miller: Which I’ve heard is super dope, by the way.

Angarano: We’re just finishing it up. It’s called “Avenues.” It’s also starring Nick Braun, Ari Graynor, Adelaide Clemens and Juno Temple. It’s about a young guy celebrating his 25th birthday a month after the death of his older brother. It’s a little bit of a drama and a comedy. It’s both. I hope it comes to a festival near you very soon.

Miller: Or very remote from you, but awesome.

Like a destination wedding, but less obnoxious. 

Miller: Yeah, a really cool place where you could go to see it.

Columbia Pictures Michael Angarano in "Almost Famous" (2000)

You both grew up acting. What were the benefits or challenges of having that kind of childhood?

Miller: I think the benefits outweigh the challenges in massive ways. I think it’s an amazing, beautiful right that unfortunately in our society is an extremely rarified privilege. A child is a super-powered being, let us not forget. Stating an intention for my life of what I wanted to do and in that moment, and being told, “Okay, great! Do that. Sounds cool.” That's rare. It happens a lot that a child says, “I want to do this,” and the answer is, “Well, okay. But have you thought about the reality of that?”

Angarano: Or, conversely, a kid says, “I don’t want to do that,” and everyone’s like, “You are doing it and you’re going to love it,” which is unfortunate. I feel like we both are not those cases, which makes us really lucky.

Miller: It’s an amazing privilege when a kid can be allowed to do what they wish to do in terms of a creative or exciting endeavor. When the resources can be present to enable the kid to have access to some version of those things. I hope that more people can have it. It’s fun. Every kid is an artist. When we’re children, we’re all in touch with the creative force, without exception. We’re all actors. We’re all playing make believe. We’re all making crazy, Basquiat-like illustrations. A lot of people get told that that’s not real and not what their life is going to look like. A lot of kids get told that they’re insufficient or their circumstances are insufficient to allow them to go after a personal dream. I feel immensely grateful.